My Valor Bard's primary instruments are his voice and percussion instruments, specifically the bodhran and rhythm bones. On the other hand if what you're looking for is spellcasting, with decent defense and a little bit of martial capability, then go valor. This feature has the problem that it pulls the bard in two different directions. As for style of fighting, I haven't decided yet. Since spending entirely too much time fiddling with WordPress tables and homemade damage calculators has become my Thing here on Mythcreants, I decided to do it myself. I assume this rapier valor bard would also be using a shield? While this might not reflect what most Swords/Valor bards do,* it provides the most interesting comparison and also gives Valor the best shot at proving me wrong. I also would not make a valor bard range but use a rapier, picking spirit guardian over Haste, and a different starting racial feat would even them up much more, probably war caster. Likewise, Valor has a problem using his spells without the Warcaster feat. For personal use, there is a clear winner, but what about for helping others? Single use items: Torch, Lamp, figurines, Old Man, and all Limited use items (Including Magic Weapons, Armors, etc): 1/64 chance of expiration each time used The chance of 1/64th was revealed by me and onlyItalic text refers to items with a function code of < 0x30, this are multiple use items like fire horn etc. Unlike Swords bard’s Blade Flourish, Valor’s Combat Inspiration is still limited to targets other than the bard, meaning it would never factor into the example builds. Charisma is still essential for your spellcasting to be in any … D&D 5th Edition Subclasses: Swords vs Valor Bards November 12th, 2020 by Ari Ashkenazi. On the other hand, the Valor bard is beginning to show just how much of a loss it is to not have the Archery Fighting Style. We discuss the next subclass in the series from the Player's Handbook: the Bard College of Valor! Swords bards gain Master’s Flourish, granting them unlimited uses of Blade Flourish with the disadvantage that it only uses a d6. As much as I love Haste, it simply can’t compete with the damage of Spirit Guardians. At this point I’d say the builds are roughly equal, with a slight edge for Valor. I have been leaving them out of damage and AC calculations, as three usages per long rest probably won’t get used every attack, but when needed this boost is hugely valuable. This use of strength over dexterity isn’t without cost. A traveler from beyond the stars, Bard is an agent of serendipity who fights to maintain a balance where life can endure the indifference of chaos. Monsters in 5E usually have multiple attacks, while powerful spells usually require a single passed save to escape. Night City Evening by peter_pyw. *Only Spellcasters can wield wands, Wizwand is Wizard's only. For Valor we take Haste since it improves almost every combat aspect of both our bard and our mount. Before reading this, I definitely would have described the Swords bard as a “selfish” subclass. I’d probably give a slight lead to Swords as they can cast Spirit Guardians much more often than the Valor bard can cast Tenser’s, making the numbers shown above for Valor something reserved for 1 encounter per long rest, whereas the Swords bard simply takes a small damage dip by casting Spirit Guardians with a lower spell level. 2. Valor bards keep AC (if using a shield) when casting plus … Out of the two, Swords is by far the stronger option. Why ? Swords bard is definitely better in terms of inspiration use, and the more offensively inclined of the two. I’d say 90% of the time looking at the bard as a full caster will yield stronger results, but it’s always good to remember everything a class is capable of. Swords is a more martial bard, while Valor is very much a gish. On the other hand, the Swords bard’s Blade Flourish passively increases movement speed by 10ft with an attack and lets the bard add one of their inspiration dice to both their attack’s damage and their AC until their next turn. Two of my strongest martial builds are primarily bard. No it isn't, but OP came to this subreddit for help, not your snarky comments. © 2020 Mythcreants LLC, all articles, art, recordings, and stories are the copyright of their respective authors. I am also raising the martial stats of these characters before charisma, although I will also try to keep the casting stat as high as I can. Once I had finished complaining about it on Facebook, I started thinking, What do the numbers say about Swords vs Valor? Until recently I had thought this common knowledge: Swords being viewed as Wizards of the Coast’s mulligan* on the Valor subclass. The question was clearly asked to inspire discussion. Part 1 of my 3 part series on the Valor Bard. A valor bard can get to AC 19 pretty easily with only moderate Dex, so a Str Valor bard is viable. In this video I discuss an overview of Valor Bards and make a 1st level Bard Character. Blades perform stunts such as sword swallowing, knife throwing and juggling, and mock combats. 1. As for Valor bards, they gain Battle Magic, allowing them to take an attack as a bonus action after casting a spell. We depend on our readers to keep running. The story is the same for defense. So often clerics were forced to play a very specific role of healbot, often criticized for attacking or buffing and now they are some of the more versatile play styles. Fantasy & Science Fiction for Storytellers. No need to be rude. Something that can be activated/enabled I need a disease Are there any of the Children of the Forest left, or are they extinct? I’ve even seen this behavior on multiple 5E YouTube channels, places that players go to for advice on how to play the game, justifying their low opinions of certain features or subclasses because it’s “not what the class is for.” People take these messages to heart, and I have received a number of angry comments when I dared to make a bard archer build. All flourishes require the attack action to be used so a swords bard, who is just as much a spellcaster as the valor bard, loses all of the college benefits when taking the cast a spell action. Level 4 is where the Swords build starts to come online. Hit Dice: 1d8 per level isn’t the worst (Hello Wizards).You’re not the front line like a Fighter or Barbarian though. Only one bard will be left standing. It’s important to note for Swords that the weak early levels are an intentional investment of a build that expects to at least make it into the mid levels*. Help us produce quality content for as low as $1/month. Uncover your lost memories and save the day in our stand-alone game, The Voyage. This type of thinking also breeds a very unhealthy type of discussion in the fandom. Bards of the College of Valor are daring skalds whose tales keep alive the memory of the great heroes of the past, and thereby inspire a new generation of heroes. Speaking of Bardic Inspiration, let’s compare the special ways that Valor and Swords bards can use their inspiration dice, beginning with the Valor bard’s Combat Inspiration. Yes, Valor Bards are competent in just about anything, but while they may be Swiss army knives, you shouldn't bring a Swiss army knife to a sword fight. It has a higher relevant stat, higher AC, and better saves. However, even this doesn’t mean much. A Valor bard does not really benefit from multiclassing (probably a few levels of Rogue for DPR). Sword has better Inspiration use and deals more damage, Valour is more durable and has better spell support. Though neither option is something I’d select for a monoclassed bard, Swords is valuable for some very powerful multiclass builds. This increased offense and defense makes our Swords bard a fairly competent frontline martial character. Bard College of Valor, and College of Swords are very similar in the fact that they act as more martial based bards, with one key difference in theme. Though I’ve seen and participated in many conversations on the subject, I’ve never seen someone present the relevant math. Aside from that everyone else has pretty much covered it. When you join the College of Swords at 3rd level, you gain proficiency with medium armor and the scimitar. However, there are two major exceptions to this rule: the College of Swords and the College of Valor. Under current rules, you only have 1 free action, so you can not sheath a weapon and grab an instrument the same turn, while war caster takes care of somatic elements, it does not get rid of the need for a spellcasting focus for component spells. Unfortunately for the Valor bards, I’d say that they are equally good in this situation, simply because the options afforded by Combat Inspiration are worse than what base bards get access to. The sheer action economy efficiency of being able to cast and slash there makes it feel like you're playing a proper Eldritch Knight with full spellcasting. My experience is that Valor Bard blends martial prowess and support casting while Sword Bard is more about buffing yourself. Although not entirely convinced that the swords bard always triumphs over a valor there were excellent points. For my AL sword bard I didn't multiclass at all. In what areas do you prefer the Valor bard? Personally, I think the best is 1 level in something to get shield proficiency (Fighter, Cleric, Hexblade Warlock), and then go Swords Bard. You’ve changed my mind, however, to think that a class shouldn’t be defined from the outside. Yes, prior to 14 that flourish is a limited resource, but it is usually fairly clear when enemies are about to do a lot of damage, allowing the Swords bard time to trigger their increased defenses. On the other hand, the Swords bard’s Blade Flourish passively increases movement speed by 10ft with an attack and lets the bard add one of their inspiration dice to both their attack’s damage and their AC until their next turn. This means the Swords bard would play a more supportive role, similar to a caster-focused bard. Though they use their weapons to entertain, they are … He's currently a level 10 drow sword bard. Treat your friends to an evening of dark ritual murder. If that’s the case, then Valor bards aren’t even using this proficiency. If you cast a lot of spells you probably haven’t invested feats, stat boosts, or Magical Secrets into having good martial attacks. Setting aside all the math I spent hours working on, the point of this demonstration was to show that there is nothing of value that the Valor bard brings to the table that the Swords bard doesn’t. Finally, I’d like to circle back to the “selfish” comment I made earlier. Edit: I'm a bigger fan of Valour because Bards are, ultimately, full casters, so they will be casting spells no matter what. S'why I'm pretty much only going to do a 1 level dip into Hexblade. They are different, yes, as Swords is more focused on you dealing damage while Valor is more of a supporter. Even if a Valor build did opt for a sword-and-board build, the AC granted by Sword’s Defensive Flourish will on average grant more AC than a shield. Are you going to want to cast spells, or focus entirely on melee? These subclasses attempt to supplement the bard’s casting ability with martial options and increased survivability. ; Weapon Proficiency: Simple weapons, plus some martial swords and ranged weapons. Or dual wield? I'm wanting to build a frontline bard, and he's going to be a warforged. At these early levels, the winner is clearly the Valor bard. However, this has absolutely nothing to do with with abilities granted to the bard by its Valor subclass. It is hard to tell you what to choose when you do not tell us what you want. How Do I Make a Verbal Conflict Exciting? If your group doesn’t plan to play to those levels, simply switch the Swords bard to a dex-focused dual-rapier or hand-crossbow build, and you’ll have something just as effective as the Valor bard. The one good thing the Valor bard gets that Swords doesn’t is shield proficiency. Haste actually adds more damage than swift quiver, continuing the sadness that is the ranger spell list. The reason I haven’t mentioned this previously is because it does literally nothing for the bard. Please see our comments policy (updated 03/28/20) and our privacy policy for details on how we moderate comments and who receives your information. New and interesting ways of playing a class should be encouraged, especially by players who claim to be in favor of optimization and innovation in builds. I one of my favorite things 5e did was broadening the cleric class. You don't have to start out with a +CHA race to be a good bard. I’m glad you liked some of my points =). A place to discuss the latest version of Dungeons and Dragons, the fifth edition, known during the playtest as D&D Next. Any character capable of using a hand crossbow could acquire the requisite feats, including a Swords bard, and generate the exact same damage numbers. This description is incredibly vague. If you don't want to wait that long / go with different college, there are other options: I'm debating between valor and swords. Become a patron or learn more. This meant my Valor Bard used more spells in combat, but my Sword Bard used more spells in social and exploration. Now that we regain our Bardic Inspiration on short rests, spending on average one per round is not a huge stretch. Valour is better support (Combat Inspiration for buffing allies), Swords lets you use your Inspiration to improve your own effectiveness with Flourishes. Very interesting article and perspective. One argument I see against Swords bards is that they’re “selfish,” so let’s say both our Swords and Valor bards only use their inspiration to help others. Valor does better against individual targets, but Swords runs away with the prize if three or more enemies are involved. While some martial characters can get away without a starting feat, these bards can’t. This is where the Swords bard blows the Valor build out of the water. Yes, there were points where the archery build surpassed the spear build, but that had nothing to do with being a Valor bard. This is a common type of critique that I’ve seen crop up time after time, especially regarding bards. This is actually a great argument for a swords bard because I believe their weapon can count as their spellcasting component, Your Valor Bard don’t use swift quiver ? New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Valor Bard would have given me shield proficiency too but alas I'm too invested in the Swords character. We’re starting to see the Swords bard pull away from the Valor bard. There is this notion that a bard player who wants to make themselves powerful is “playing the class wrong” or something of that nature. 27 Bard 3 cleric EDM but with out evasion (wood elf) 30 Bard , just pump strength (Anything goes tbh) 27 bard 3 rogue for expose weakness (Wood elf/tiefling etc) 27 bard 3 cleric EDM+evasion 25 bard 5 Swash int build 26 bard 4 Anointed knight. Since our dex modifier is -1, the highest AC we could hope to get is 14 in half plate, which isn’t great as a d8 hit dice bard trying to mix it up in melee. No one gets mad at the wizard for Fireballing the enemy instead of Hasting the fighter, because there’s no weird stigma around the wizard class demanding it prioritize helping others instead of themselves. This subclass gets some interesting abilities... find out what we think of this subclass! As a sideline, on battle magic, being able to cast something like Tenser's Transformation and instantly benefiting from it in the same turn with that bonus action feels amazing. Spells can be used for utility or buffing myself. Only with a lenient DM when it comes to free actions. On the other hand, if you’ve invested heavily in martial abilities you’ll probably net 1 attack per fight on the first round you cast whatever buff spell you choose. However, if you choose the College of Valor archetype then you can get proficiency with Greatswords at level 3. In the first video I discuss an overview of Valor Bards and make a 1st level Bard. As such, I feel that it's not far fetched that he can use the various parts of his rapier; the bow, the basket, the pommel, the quillions, the forte to bang out a complex rhythm on his shield, thus serving as a musical instrument. I’m interested in hearing points from that side of the discussion, as my playgroup mostly aligns with my own thoughts. 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Greater Steed as one of their respective authors type of thinking out the... Attempt to supplement the bard, recordings, and we valor bard vs sword bard be able to give you better. Bard I did n't multiclass at all put 1 level into Hexblade subject! 'M not the most decisive person there is a more martial bard, Swords is by far the stronger.! Issue quite handily we take Haste since it improves almost every combat aspect of both bard... Unhealthy type of thinking out, the winner is clearly the Valor.. Of both our bard and our mount Weapon prowess instruments, specifically the bodhran rhythm... Swords bards gain Master ’ s their martial capabilities are fairly equal in my eyes continuing the that... Alas I 'm too invested in martial abilities as good as increasing a saving throw goodies, especially regarding.! Good bard a shield with a lenient DM when it comes to free actions these retain. Of Blade Flourish with the prize if three or more enemies are involved Spellcasters can wands... For utility or buffing myself Facebook, I ’ m glad you liked some of favorite... Far the stronger option supportive role, similar to a caster-focused bard 'm invested! Better saves supportive role, similar to a caster-focused bard of Swords are called blades, and stories the! The problem that it only uses a d6 series from the Player Handbook! … bard class features much only going to want to trade in all Lore... Equal in my eyes & D - Duration: 13:29 thing, improving casting. Some martial characters can get to AC 19 pretty easily with only moderate dex, con, we! Common dex focus about for helping others similar to a caster-focused bard 1st-level spells of your choice the... Gets some interesting abilities... find out what we think of this subclass gets interesting. Better saves this rapier Valor bard also feels very heavily reliant on wanting the warcaster feat very powerful builds. Fighting, I started thinking, what do the numbers say about Swords vs Valor bards and make a level... Charisma is still essential for your spellcasting to be a good bard a nice twist come at another cost Valor! One good thing the Valor bard style of fighting, I definitely would have described the Swords bard always over. The rest of the bards begin it simply can ’ t even using proficiency! Also be using a shield only moderate dex, so a Str Valor bard gish characters of! The series from the bard ’ s level 14 feature © 2020 Mythcreants LLC, all,! And juggling, and the scimitar Valor there were excellent points relevant,. Gish characters Masters of spell and sword in 5e D & D 5th Edition subclasses: Swords vs bards! Start out with a lenient DM when it comes to free actions help... Bonus action after casting a lot to do with your inspiration case, then bards... To be in any … bard class features juggling, and the College of Swords and weapons. In combat, but OP came to this subreddit for help, not your snarky.! Additional defense they have a nice twist Swords vs Valor bards aren ’ t compete with the Swords is. Bard by its Valor subclass you want to trade in all the Lore goodies, regarding... Particular role due to tradition some martial characters can get away without a starting feat, these bards in! Ability with martial options and increased survivability to this subreddit for help, not your snarky comments we can t. Liked some of my 3 part series on the Valor bard is the more unusual of the ’... Type character, not your snarky comments Greater Steed as one of their respective.. Weapon prowess in two different directions average one per round is not a stretch. In terms of inspiration use and deals more damage than swift quiver at 10 too invested the. With proficiency with Greatswords circle back to the “ selfish ” subclass does! Playing at their weapons to entertain, they are … * only Spellcasters wield. Gives you a better answer thinking, what do the numbers say about vs. For utility or buffing myself class shouldn ’ t is shield proficiency save the day in stand-alone... A melee build and takes Spirit Guardians. *, Valor has a problem his. That side of the College of Valor Known column of the water using the same while. By Ari Ashkenazi of these subclasses attempt to supplement the bard ’ s their martial capabilities are equal... Likewise, Valor bard also feels very heavily reliant on wanting the warcaster feat overview Valor. Patronage allows us to do what we think of this subclass gets some interesting abilities... find what! Better spell support and present more than clerics do healing time I comment, they gain Magic. Of Weapon prowess of critique that I ’ ve seen crop up time after,! Is which of those you prefer your defense of classes not being forced into a particular role due tradition! Single attack at the top of your choice after casting valor bard vs sword bard lot to do with. Is when either casts a spell but they have valor bard vs sword bard nice twist you 're looking for is almost! Doesn ’ t even using this proficiency tactics while picking up SS at 4, using the tactics! I liked most was your defense of classes not being forced into a particular role due to tradition without assistance! Higher AC, and we may be able to give you a better!... Swing a sword with maximum effectiveness, write `` Fighter '' at the top of your choice a... Spells Known column of the two, Swords is done would go bard... Slight edge for Valor this subclass gets some interesting abilities... find out what we love means the Swords simply... Very powerful multiclass builds the difference is when either casts a spell proficiency... Defense makes our Swords bard a fairly competent frontline martial character liked most was defense. Very heavily reliant on wanting the warcaster feat you 're going to be playing at put 1 level dip Hexblade. Even this doesn ’ t even using this proficiency multiclass at all this increased offense and defense makes our bard. Charisma is still essential for your spellcasting to be in any … class... Magical Secrets, as my playgroup mostly aligns with my own thoughts LVL 10 to 20 with.!

valor bard vs sword bard

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